Norwegian push pull tiller mod (Peapod in this case)

I bought single lug Peapod, but this season I would like to make a push pull tiller (like the Yawl version comes with) as an option.   I was well on the way of making a reasonable facimile of the OEM push-pull, but then I reaized that the right angle arm epoxied into the rudder cassette makes for an ungainly contraption whenever you want to stow the rudder, whether you are talking in the cockpit or the off season.

So I am soliciting ideas of others who may have dealt with this.  I am considering 3 options.

Option 1:  Much like OEM push pull, but make the tenon of mortise and tenon joint longer, so I can stick a magogany wege pin in it on outside end to snug it up.  The 1/2" / 12mm arm may not be solid enough alone, and I might have to have something like a 3/4" plydood collar epoxied on the arm side for more surface area to mate with the cassette, and for that matter a removable collar on outside part of tenon before the wedge as well for more clamping force.

Option 2: cut more of a peg on top of cassette and have the arm (I don't know what you call that part of the push pull rudder, is it part of the tiller? part of the rudder?) more of a collar that slips over it.  maybe a small brass pin in the peg so the arm does not walk off the top perhaps.

Option 3: just butt up the arm thing to the cassette, with a brass door hinge on the bottom, so when the rudder is stowed, arm drops down along side cassette. when in the "in use" position either another hinge that has a removable pin, or a cabinet latch to keep it locked in right angle to rudder cassette.  Not sure if they make brass cabinet latches.  I'm sure somebody does.

Pictures of examples of the first two (although not CLC peapods) are easily seachable of "norwegian push pull tiller" if I am not clear.  Certainly easier than me figuring a way to host pictures so you can see them here.

So, thoughts anyone on what would be best? 

 


10 replies:

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RE: Norwegian push pull tiller mod (Peapod in this case)

   Another thing.  I bought a piece of rattan about 1 1/4 inch diameter x 6 or 8 feet long (cut to whatever liength is correct for you) from someplace in CA to use as the long steering stick. I just looked it up: https://www.franksupply.com/bamboo/rattan-poles.html 

You can get various diameters, it takes varnish just fine.  The stuff is perfect as a replacement for whatever 1x1" fir or whatever CLC supplies in the kit.  Maybe most people don't break the steering stick, but step on it wrong and it certainly will break.  The rattan is virtually unbreakable, and it is stiff but flexible.  It is a little bit soft internally, so consider a drill/fill/drill method when you put a hole in it.  They use this stuff for a thing called a push stick for skateboards.  You can check out some of the pictures of a rattan pole at this Amazon link - these shown are even beefier than ever needed for a steering stick. https://www.amazon.com/WEST-SSUP-Rattan-Street-Original/dp/B00XJD3DS6/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8 

RE: Norwegian push pull tiller mod (Peapod in this case)

   thanks, that's helpful.   here is a link to a small boat article that has an example of a tiller arm like what I described as "option 2"

https://smallboatsmonthly.com/article/norwegian-tiller-keeper/

yesterfay I was leaning to option 1, today I wonder if option 2 would be stronger and perhaps easier to install and break down.  I might have to make mock ups of both before I commit to either on my half built rudder cassette....

RE: Norwegian push pull tiller mod (Peapod in this case)

More pics here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/feetwetphotos/41811606060/in/album-72157667267363123/

Was worried about losing the wingnuts so I've changed to a single bolt. Sorry, no pics of the mods. This should give you a start if you want to go this direction. 

RE: Norwegian push pull tiller mod (Peapod in this case)

Last season I got frustrated with the lashed-on push/pull tiller on my Waterlust, found an inexpensive solution in a little thing available from Duckworks:

[img]https://forum.fyneboatkits.co.uk/img/members/25548/D2088C4D-1700-4665-95BD-F06B936B5942.jpg[/img]

(Apologies if pic doesn't show; it's hosted on another CLC-affiliated forum, I've had poor luck getting images to show here before....)

From Ronstan, labeled as a 'universal tiller extension joint' it works really well!

https://duckworks.com/ronstan-urethane-universal-tiller-extension-joint/

 

RE: Norwegian push pull tiller mod (Peapod in this case)

To make a simple jpg file show, just copy its URL, insert an image box into your message (button next to "?" button in the toolbar) and paste the image URL into the image box.

Laszlo

 

RE: Norwegian push pull tiller mod (Peapod in this case)

   Duckworks also sells this Racelite swivel that I used on my skerry tiller.  Works great, but I will say always drop an extra cotter ring and pin or two in your ditty bag for when you drop one in the water.

RE: Norwegian push pull tiller mod (Peapod in this case)

   for now I plan to use the rope technique as described in the CLC manual for the "universal joint" of the tiller, and see how I like it.

 

RE: Norwegian push pull tiller mod (Peapod in this case)

   That is slick Nate!

RE: Norwegian push pull tiller mod (Peapod in this case)

Nate - I used your solution #1.  Cut the shoulders back on the rigid arm so more of the tenon extended through.  Then, cut a slot for a wedge to hold it in place.  Works very well.  Good luck.

Steve   

RE: Norwegian push pull tiller mod (Peapod in this case)

So, A couple of notes after sailing exactly once using my Push/pull tiller:  
On one hand not that hard to get used to, but on the other it is.  Generally it goes where you intend.  But if there is a sudden change (as it was in a gusty blustery day I took it out) the "muscle memory" of what to do quickly without thinking isnt there and led to some very lubbery resposes to sudden condition changes.  It also did not help it was first sail of the season, with all the atrophied skills 5 month of not sailing will do to you.  but I imagine that will come back in time.
I think also wth a push pull you have a slight loss of leverage, as the arm coming off the rudder is shorter than a conventional tiller, which may lead to a sense of more of a weather helm, alothough I was also sailing reefed, in blustery conditions  which I had not done in this boat before, so lots of unaccounted variables. 


I think I read that it is important to put the tiller pivot point (the arm meets the tiller proper I guess) be approximately at pintle pivot point when at neutral helm so that you don't have uneven requirements pushing vs pulling, if you know what I mean.  This would mean the arm coming off the rudder can't come out straight, but angle a bit so the hinge part of the tiller is parallel with the pintles, and for lack of a better word, forward of the rudder assembly.


And lastly, I made the long arm of the tiller as spec described in the build book for the Peapod, which lists it as 60" and out of "mahogany or similar."  I went with spruce, but did do 60', which now maybe feels a bit short.  fortunately should I choose to replace it, it should be relatively painless to swap out something longer.  I do notice that while manual says 60" the pictures (and videos) picture somethig that appears quite longer and seems to straddle the middle seat.  Maybe more like 72" or 80" would be my guess.


This might fix the one remaining problem I had which is the long arm rubbed on the aft rail quite often when I took her out.  I was thinking of sewing some leather there, but maybe making whole thing longer would preven me from dipping it so low in the cabin, causing the rubbing in the first place. 
So, anyone with a peapod, who built the stock "Push-pull" how long was the long bit off the side arm?  And did it feel like the right length?

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