clc sail rig - sail choice for a hoistable sail

I'm thinking about a sail rig combined with a Wood Duck 12, and I'm wondering about the sail choice.  Correct me if I'm wrong but the sleeved luff on the sail rig sails means they can't be hoisted and lowered - Is that accurate? 

Does that effectively mean there is no "off switch" when you're underway?

Does anyone have thoughts or musings about a similarly sized, but hoistable alternative?  I would guess in the tight space of a cockpit you should think carefully about whether you want a boom, but I do like the standing lug on my skerry.

 

 


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RE: clc sail rig - sail choice for a hoistable sail

Bob,

I'm building a sail rig for my WD12 and using a similarly sized sprit rig from my sailing dinghy both because a) I can't see owning two sails that spend most of their lives hanging in my garage and b) I want to be able to raise and lower the sail while out on the water.

Assuming that your sail's shape preserves the relationship between the centers, I think your Skerry rig should be fine.

As far as booms go, I normally sail my dinghy boomless, but because of the geometries that would not allow me to get the sheeting angle right on the sail rig. Because of that, I'll be using a boom (loose footed) with the sail rig (and keeping my head down).

Good luck,

Laszlo

 

RE: clc sail rig - sail choice for a hoistable sail

Hey Lazlo,

Thanks so much for the reply, and it's great to hear you're thinking of something similar.  My skerry lug sail is, I think, way too big for this.  I am not using the stock sail (the only option that was available when I built it was the sprit), and I think my sail is around 67 sq ft.  The mast I am using is the same size as the stock mast for the sprit rig, but I raked it back a bit to keep the CE around the same place as the sprit.

Although I get that the whole point of having outriggers is to carry more sail, I can't really see a WD 12 carrying a mast/sail that size. I could be wrong about that. 

One thought I had was a lateen about 10' on a side might work for a 45-ish sq ft sail, and that sounds like a small enough package to be sized conveniently for a WD 12.  The stock sails for the sail rig tend to have a more vertical aspect ratio than a lateen.  If that is important (and I don't know if it is, but would welcome comments) then a lug might be the way to get a taller sail. 

I think I need to draw out some ideas before any of this is going to start making sense to me.

 

RE: clc sail rig - sail choice for a hoistable sail

You know, Bob, you might be onto something with the lateen idea as a simple, low-tech-is-go-tech, easily managed solution, if you have sufficient skill and/or persistence to build your own.  When I was younger, that was fairly common as a canoe sail rig, though it seems out-of-fashion nowdays.  I've sailed Sunfish (Sunfishes?) a few times in my life, and I was always impressed by how effective, yet easily managed, the lateen sail was.  Short mast is another advantage.

.....Michael

 

RE: clc sail rig - sail choice for a hoistable sail

  As luck would have it the current issue of Wooden Boat Mag has a great article on lateen sails.

RE: clc sail rig - sail choice for a hoistable sail

 

Bob

I have a WoodDuck 12 with the Mark III sail rig.  The 70 sq ft sail is hoisted on a sail track and has no luff sleeve. It has reef points to allow shortening sail ashore or on the water, and has no boom.  The down side is that the Mark III set-up is rather pricey.  The boat has no problem handling a sail that large, you just have to never cleat the mainsheet and be prepared to let the sheet out if you get hit by a gust.  I’ve found that the large sail is great in light air, but as the wind picks up there comes a point at which the boat will simply not go any faster no matter how much force is in the sail, and starts to feel like it’s dragging a fairly large bucket astern.  This point (hull speed) is the built-in speed limit to the boat.  If I were to do it again, I might go for a smaller rig, for ease of handling and lower purchase price, as any hoped-for increase in moderate wind from a larger sail just isn’t there.  

Peter

RE: clc sail rig - sail choice for a hoistable sail

Peter,

Pictures, pretty please?

Laszlo

  

RE: clc sail rig - sail choice for a hoistable sail

   

 » Submitted by Gramps - Sun, 9/1/19 » 3:01 PM

"You know, Bob, you might be onto something with the lateen idea as a simple, low-tech-is-go-tech, easily managed solution, if you have sufficient skill and/or persistence to build your own.  When I was younger, that was fairly common as a canoe sail rig, though it seems out-of-fashion nowdays.  I've sailed Sunfish (Sunfishes?) a few times in my life, and I was always impressed by how effective, yet easily managed, the lateen sail was.  Short mast is another advantage.

.....Michael"

Thanks for the reply Gramps!  I think I'll be ok with the woodworking, mechanical, and design, but not sure I'm up to the task of making the sail.  The guy that made the sail for my Skerry retired, or I'd hit him up again in a heartbeat.

But yeah, that's what I was thinking about.  Sunfish are so simple, and that sort of ease just puts you in a mood.

 

 » Submitted by Silver Salt - Sun, 9/1/19 » 8:07 PM

"As luck would have it the current issue of Wooden Boat Mag has a great article on lateen sails."

Thanks for the heads up!  Wow, I checked it out - that's a seriously big lateen!  I was surprised! which led to questions, and google - next thing you know, have you ever heard of a flying lateen?  http://www.flyinglateen.com/

 

 » Submitted by Shapiro, Peter - Tue, 9/3/19 » 7:29 PM

"Bob

I have a WoodDuck 12 with the Mark III sail rig.  The 70 sq ft sail is hoisted on a sail track and has no luff sleeve. It has reef points to allow shortening sail ashore or on the water, and has no boom.  The down side is that the Mark III set-up is rather pricey.  The boat has no problem handling a sail that large, you just have to never cleat the mainsheet and be prepared to let the sheet out if you get hit by a gust.  I’ve found that the large sail is great in light air, but as the wind picks up there comes a point at which the boat will simply not go any faster no matter how much force is in the sail, and starts to feel like it’s dragging a fairly large bucket astern.  This point (hull speed) is the built-in speed limit to the boat.  If I were to do it again, I might go for a smaller rig, for ease of handling and lower purchase price, as any hoped-for increase in moderate wind from a larger sail just isn’t there.  

Peter"

Are you serious? 70 sq ft on a WD12, Oh man, that sounds incredible. 

Yeah, I'm in and out of islands going in and out of shelter, so gusts are normal, so I get why you don't cleat the sheet.  Esp with 70 - that has to be fun! 

Truth be told I'm trying to move in a somewhat more comfortable direction. Currently I have a Skerry I've been sailing for 15 yrs I think, and i love it.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/JB96bcUYSGMn63u8A

But I've been having back trouble and sometimes it hurts enought to keep me out of the boat.  Oddly enough, it's not the rowing, it's the sitting when I'm sailing.   Sometimes I wedge myself agasint the hull for support, but that only lasts a little while.  In reality, you're constantly moving and have to manage a lot of positions.

I demod a WD12 a few weeks ago and the back band felt so good.  I could see moving that along with a zippy little rig that didn't make you feel like you needed to do any acrobatics.

 

Then, I saw this video and thought that looks just about right

https://youtu.be/1nI3IfR-_V4

 

RE: clc sail rig - sail choice for a hoistable sail

I just went with the sleeved sail on my sailrig - I don't have the technical expertise to mess around and I think John does a good job to start with. My sailrig is on a WD 14. It goes very well.

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